The Florida Challenge

Putting Policy into Practice Without a Compliance Department

Overview

Many Florida farms don’t have a dedicated compliance department - which means owners and managers handle most of the H2A paperwork themselves. This webinar is designed to walk through what that really looks like, from timelines and filing expectations to costs and how digital tools can help farms stay organized, document requirements, and reduce the day-to-day compliance burdens.

Hosted by FieldClock, an official Florida Farm Bureau member benefit, in partnership with Agri Placements International - this session will show Florida growers how to leverage technology and labor expertise to thrive in the current regulatory environment.

Transcript

ASHLEY

Righty. Thank you all for joining us today. This is the Florida challenge putting policy into practice without a compliance department. But before we get started, just a couple of quick housekeeping notes for you. We're going to be doing a live Q&A. So you'll notice at the bottom of your screen, you'll see a Q&A section where you can add a question.

We're going to do our best to answer them live. If we can incorporate them in our conversation, we sure will. And if not, we'll handle as many as we can after the fact. But just so you know, the session is being recorded and we'll send up a follow up email with the recording and additional resources after the webinar.

But thank you all for being here. And we're here today because Florida agriculture is in a very real moment. More farms are turning to Huai, and not because they want more paperwork, but because they need reliable labor to keep their operations running. And what we continue to hear from farmers all over the country and from Florida Farm Bureau members is a simple but important question.

What am I missing? And for many small and mid-sized farms there, there isn't a compliance department. Farms are running lean, and oftentimes the same person is taking care of labor, payroll, housing, record keeping. And when you don't have a team of people handling these things, details can get lost and small errors can have lasting, impacting results. And this session isn't about turning you into a legal expert, it's about clarity.

What H-2a really requires in practice, where farms tend to get surprised and how the right partners and systems can reduce risk and stress. So our goal today is simple clearer expectations, fewer surprises, and more confidence moving forward. And most importantly, the right resources and connections in case you need help. And with that being said, let me quickly introduce myself.

I'm Ashley and I'm with FieldClock and I come from the farm side of this work, and I understand firsthand how heavy labor and compliance can feel when you're juggling everything else it takes to run your farm and FieldClock is a Florida Farm Bureau member benefit. We offer easy to use and affordable app based timekeeping and record keeping system, and our mission is simple to provide practical, cost effective tools that help farms manage labor and documentation without adding unnecessary burden.

And I'm genuinely glad to be a part of this conversation, and I'm incredibly thankful to be in partnership with Florida Farm Bureau and thank them for their participation today. But I'm especially glad to have Mark with us. Mark represents AG Replacements International, one of the largest and most experienced H-2a filers in the country. But what I appreciate most is that they're deeply connected to growers that they serve, and they understand the realities on the ground because they've lived them.

Mark and his team are incredibly experienced, but also very practical and down to earth. And that combination is exactly why we wanted him leading today's discussion. So, Mark, I've said a lot about you, but I'd love for you to briefly introduce yourself in your own words and just share a little bit about your background and the growers you work with.

MARK

Yeah. Thanks, Ashley, and thanks for having me this morning. I've been involved in H-2a now for about 12 years, I think. So a lot has changed in that time, both at agri placements and kind of in the industry. But for me, I come from a farming background. In fact, I still farm with my father, although I spend most of my time in the office.

I'm kind of more of a seasonal hand on the farm, I guess, than I am a farmer, but certainly connected to agriculture. Always have been, always will be. And an interesting note about replacements is that the company was founded in 1998, and the lady that founded it was married or is still married to a custom harvester. And basically she started the company because he didn't have access to workers at that time.

And H-2a was obviously very different back then. So she starts doing paperwork for him to get him workers and sort of snowballed into what it is today, which is really exciting for me, you know, to have our roots be from agriculture and kind of still be rooted in that today. And the last thing I would say that I really like is being able to be involved with farms across the country.

So we're in northwest Oklahoma, you know, forming farming in northwest Oklahoma looks different than it does in Florida, which looks different than it does in Oregon and in North Dakota, etc.. And so really appreciative of my opportunity and to be involved in agriculture and to be with you this morning.

ASHLEY

Very cool. Thank you for being here. And I love working with farmers all across the country. And I love Mark and agri placement, simply because I needed to reach Mark one time. And just like all the farmers that I work with, Mark answers and he is out baling hay. And I love that because he understands exactly who you are, because he's doing it himself and as as the rest of his team.

So incredibly happy to be here with you guys. So let's jump into it. All right Mark. H-2a continues to grow. And when farmers reach out to you, what are they usually unsure about. And where do you see the biggest gaps for new growers entering in the system? Or maybe growers that are handling this.

MARK

And well, I think, you know, with H-2a there's there's a lot of moving pieces. Right. And if you're not using H-2a you don't really know what those are. So there's quite a bit of uncertainty for someone that's considering using the program. It can appear daunting. But really the primary concern for a new employer and H-2a seems to be what's it going to require of me and what's that going to cost?

Obviously, farms are trying to be viable. It's been a difficult period fiscally for agriculture. And so generally that's what folks are trying to figure out. Hey, I have a lack of labor. I know I need to be able to access workers. And I hear that H-2a can help me do that, but what's it going to take of me and what's it going to cost to implement this program?

ASHLEY

Yeah. No, absolutely. There's definitely a lot of fear of the unknown for sure. When you see newer, smaller farms getting getting started, what what do you see them getting tripped up most often over?

MARK

Well, H-2a is very process driven, sort of process oriented, you know, both in the filing and in the compliance side of it. And so for new employers, new growers, particularly small growers, many times the farmer, you know, the person that's kind of the one we're dealing with or that's managing the human resources side of the farm, is also doing the farming so that farmers in the field or in the machine, they're actually doing the work.

And so it can be difficult for the farm to be able to sort of dot the eyes and cross the t's in the filing process and also get the farming done. And I think that's where companies like us, like ag replacements, can kind of come alongside the farmer and help them implement a process of would otherwise be difficult for them.

It's also where a solution like FieldClock provides a tremendous amount of value, because you can make some of those manual tasks that can kind of drag you down into the minutia, and more streamlined and easier for a new grower to manage.

ASHLEY

Yeah. For sure. Now, I guess you've kind of answered this a little bit, but I just wanted to really hit home on this point because there's a lot of farms that kind of take this on and take this ownership, and they're running lean and they have lots of House of hats to wear. What is, I guess, what is the benefit of, of of working with a company like yours?

And what would you say, what would you say they need to look for when looking for a partner like yours? Because again, they don't really know much about the system or really had a vet. Some of these companies. So what would you be able to offer them for this.

MARK

That's a that's a really good question. And I think I think of it I think of filing H-2a like filing taxes. You can follow your own taxes if you want to. Right. But how many people actually do you know. Some do. It works well for some. But many hire a CPA because the CPA deals in taxes every day and knows the answers to the questions.

It can handle that process effectively, right? I think H-2a is very much the same way. So obviously a farm can file H-2a on its own if it wishes to. But when you're working with an agent, you're not just buying their services, in my opinion, particularly if you're working with reputable agent, but you're buying their knowledge. So I've got, you know, examples of this.

But it's ironic, you asked me this question yesterday. A grower from Ohio called and they said, hey, we've been filing our applications, you know, for a number of years having had problems. And we've got two applications in process this year. We're following our petitions, but we just were hung up. We can't figure out the new filing system. We can't get it to work for us.

You know, we're not getting our workers here. This is stressful. And and so we could look at it and say, well, in that system that you can't figure out how to file the petition through, we've already filed, you know, 1600 petitions, and they're in the time that it's been, which was just after the government shut down last quarter.

And so in that case, that that grower is now looking at it going, okay, well, maybe I can do this process myself. But when crunch time occurs or if a problem arises, where's my resource? Basically how am I going to get that taken care of. And so I think that's where a lot of the value of working with an agency is not so much in the administrative filing side of things, but just the knowledge base that comes through an agency doing a fair amount of business.

In terms of when you're looking for a reputable agent, the data is public. So you can look and see how many filings is that agent doing? What's the scope of their filings? You know, are they filing in multiple areas for different types of work, etc.. And you want an agent that's going to be responsive. You need to be able to call or email, get a hold of them.

You know, they should have good resources. So when you call, you should be able to get a solid answer that you can rely upon, and they should be able to send you resources that you need or connect you to resources. If it's an outsourced solution like FieldClock but just, you know, overall kind of use your instinct, you know, does this seem like a reputable outfit or does it not because you're putting your eggs in that basket and when you when your business relies on accessing labor, particularly through H-2a, when you don't get them, obviously, you know, calamity awaits.

ASHLEY

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this process is is is manageable, but it is complicated. And I mean, as is farming and capturing labor, you know, farming is becoming harder and harder every year. Regulations are becoming more and more rigid. And it's, I think, more and more critical to make sure that that farms, regardless of their size, have the right tools in place where they can dot the rise, cross their t's, be able to pull information quickly and easily, and have the right team in place to so as they need resources, as they need answers.

Really, that is an absolute valuable thing. And, you know, I think we all know working in this industry that your resources, the people that you know, and the tools you have are probably the most critical thing.

MARK

Absolutely.

ASHLEY

So now what I loved about what you said talking when you're thinking about working with an agency, making sure that they're working with a similar operation or that they have experience with operations like yours, when do you see H-2a not being a good fit for a farm? If they're considering this? And what are the real disqualifying is.

MARK

Yeah. So this is an interesting question too. And so generally H-2a is when someone is approaching us about using age to a, it's because they have a problem, they need a solution. And the problem is they don't have labor and their farm needs labor to function. Right. So it's almost never that the solution that we offer them isn't what they need.

Generally if it if it doesn't work, it's because they're not eligible for some reason. And I can think of three. One is if there are US workers available, of course that's a primary premise of the program. You can't have access to H-2a if there are U.S. workers for those jobs. They are just declining to hire. So obviously, if there's U.S. workers, it doesn't work.

If an employer has a need that's not seasonal or temporary, which in some instances in agriculture can be the case. But if it's not seasonal or temporary, then it's not eligible for H-2a. And then the third would be if it's not agricultural. So if an employer is reaching out and even if they think it's agricultural in their mind, it seems like it's AG, you know, maybe milling, you know, wheat to turn it into flour or something.

And it seems agricultural. Well, Dol would consider that to not be so then it doesn't work for them. But otherwise if the there's not sufficient U.S. workers, if the neatest seasonal or temporary, if the work is agricultural, then it just comes down, in my opinion, to a matter of whether or not it's economically viable for them to use H-2a.

In other words, does it make sense to because it's not a cheap program? That's often a kind of a misconception. People don't get into H-2a because they're trying to, you know, hire cheap labor. And so it is a commitment. And so the the employer has to then away at that point, if I meet those criteria, if I know I can use H-2a, does it make sense for me to use H-2a?

ASHLEY

Yeah, for sure. I mean, for me for for me, the way that I've started to view this is I'm not looking for cheap labor. I'm looking for reliable labor, and I'm looking for labor when I need it and how I need it. But just to just take a step back. How would you explain this seasonality requirement to some of our growers?

MARK

So the Department of Labor takes the position that an employer can't have workers for any more than ten months per year. It's a little bit more nuanced than that. It's per year kind of per seasonal need or per job classification. So a single grower could have multiple seasonal needs that, when combined, encompass 12 months out of the year.

For example, a let's say take a grower in Georgia that raises, let's just say potatoes. That farm might need workers from April to November. This shows how much I know about potatoes in Florida. That may not be the growing season, but let's just say it's April to November. It needs equipment operators to plant water to harvest potatoes that same farm workers from November to April for packing and packaging the potatoes between those two separate job classifications that the the farm may have H-2a workers on its farm all 12 months out of the year, but in no single job classification or seasonal need can the farm exceed ten months of the year.

There are. Let me add one more comment. There are some limited exceptions, so if a farm operates in multiple areas of intended employment. So if you had a farm, let's say a tomato grower that operated in Florida but also operated in Southern California, its season in Florida could be different than its season in California. Of course, it'd be two separate applications, and those two seasons could have their own dates of need.

So maybe Florida needs, you know, eight months and California needs eight months, which overlap such that the entity has workers in 12 months out a year, but in separate areas of intended employment. And then the last one is there's an exception for herding of animals on the rage, where you can essentially have workers 365 days a year. So but just generally the premise is ten months or less per year, unless you have very distinctly separate job classifications or seasonal needs that you need workers for, in which case maybe you have a little bit more flexibility.

ASHLEY

For sure. That's a lot of moving parts and pieces. And for me, for me, what I'm thinking about is all of the farmers that we've been working with and, you know, if they want to utilize a system like this, it's incredibly important for them to understand how many people that they need. And, you know, from a financial standpoint, really making sure that they're not overextending themselves or shorting themselves on labor.

So it's really important to be able to, to to understand where they need the labor, when they need the labor, so that they're able then to move forward with, with those contracts specifically. And that's something that, you know, it's it's it's an intuitive process we kind of understand. But where FieldClock really helps is be able to quantify that.

So you're able to see exactly where you've had labor, what tasks they were doing. And that's going to help you classify those employees. It's going to help you with your contract process and articulate your need for that seasonal labor. So I, I can't even imagine, you know, trying to put this together, like writing things down without it. So I'm glad that there are tools like FieldClock that can that can help that process.

And also even now you just added multi-jurisdictional to this. So now, you know, you have a lot of these farmer farming operations that are working one state and then moving all their labor to another. So it's really important to be able to to be able to definitively say when you need people, how they need them and where they're going to be.

What would you say, Mark? So the farms that you've been working with, what are the farms that that tend to succeed long term? What are they doing differently from a record keeping standpoint?

MARK

Generally, I would say they're sort of paying attention to detail from the onset, you know, and again, kind of creating a system where the data that needs to be collection that collected is captured in this in a systematized way, and also that the appropriate disclosures are being made. And so that's, you know, kind of a plug for FieldClock I guess, is that's a great aspect of FieldClock is that when you're working in there, you know, okay, I'm making the right disclosures to my workers on their earnings statements.

And I know I have access to it. It's at my fingertips on my phone or my computer. And so it's just kind of squared away. And I think that's what sort of for the employers that have the most success or the least headache, particularly in a compliance event after the fact, they've kind of started ahead of the game there instead of trying to play catch up later on.

ASHLEY

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's that's a very big thing too. You know, you are entering into a contract and you need to make sure that you're paying your people exactly how you've specified that you're going to. So having those systems in place so there are no hiccups. There are no delays in that from day one. They're getting paid the right way, and you're able to capture the information that you need in order to make decisions for next year, or if wage and hour comes out.

Absolutely. So now, one of the things that, you know, I've, I've really been learning, I guess, over the past three years working with FieldClock is understanding H-2a and the timelines that are involved in it now for for farms that maybe are filing themselves or considering using an agency, I know that the timelines are pretty specific, and if there are any delays, it really could impact when and if your labor shows up.

If you could walk us through a timeline at a high level, what are the major milestones that growers need to plan around?

MARK

This is a good topic, and I kind of think of it like dominoes in H-2a. So you've got this process. There's really five governmental agencies involved. You've got the state Dol, USCIS, the Department of State and CBP. And it's like a row dominoes. And you need the dominoes to be falling to keep the trade moving. And if any domino doesn't fall, it sort of blocks it, you know, in the process doesn't continue to move along.

And so the the timeline, sort of the, the check marks that you want to be aware of are the filing window is 75 to 60 days before the start date of need. So if you need workers on February 1st, you can begin filing that application on November 18th. Up until I think that's December 2nd and recall network memory.

So don't quote me on that. But that's roughly your filing windows if you need workers February 1st. By November 18th, in our opinion, we should be filing the job order, meaning it's the domino is falling, it's at the state, and now we're looking for their approval so we can get it to Department of Labor. And so you can file it.

Day 75. It's ideal to be preparing somewhere between 15 and 30 days before that. So now you're around 100 days, let's say 100 days before you start date of need. You should kind of be preparing the job or getting ready to have it filed and getting it, you know, basically having it saved and ready to go set on day 75, it can be filed with the state workforce agency.

And then you want to make sure that your case is filed to the Department of Labor by 45 days. So 45 days is kind of your next checkpoint in our in our operations. What we do is whenever it's filed to the state the day that it's approved, it goes to doll. If the state fails to act upon it within seven days, which is the time they're allotted, we go ahead and file it straight to Dol and basically say, hey, this wall wasn't able to get their job done.

You know, we're bringing this to you now and again, trying to get that next domino to fall as rapidly as possible. So you've got fond of the state, found a doll kind of 75 and 45 days before the start date of need. You then want to pay attention to your house. Housing needs to be inspected. This might be the number one hold up we see in the job processing in terms of getting the company certified by the Department of Labor to move into the last step.

The number I think the number one holdup we see is probably housing. And so your housing really needs to be inspected and fully approved by no later than 32 days before you start date. So you filed the state between 75 and 45 days, let's say, really between 45 days and 32 days. But before you start date, you want your housing to be fully approved and ready to go so that Department of Labor can certify your application, which they're supposed to do by 30 days before you start date.

So roughly a month before you start date, you should be through the state and through Department of Labor. And moving on to the last step in sort of the approval process, which is USCIS. Now, USCIS processing is asking anyone who files H-2a. It can be quite erratic. And again, that that grower that called yesterday that was trying to do it themselves.

Their problems were all stemming from USCIS. We track in our software what the average time from receipt to approval is at USCIS processing, typically on unnamed petitions. It's like 3 or 4 days or that's where it's been right now it's 7 or 8 days. Wow. It's much longer than what it typically has been for made petitions. So if a grower transferring workers between contracts or from contract to contract, that's in our experience, normally kind of 14 to 17 days.

I looked yesterday, I think it was like 45 days. So you're talking about a tripling of how long it's taking at USCIS, but Dol certifies you at 30 days before you start date, hopefully in I said 7 or 8 days for unnamed petitions. Hopefully by day 20 you've got an approval from USCIS, and now your workers can undertake the consular process and get visas to come over and work for your farm, hopefully on or around the start date of need at that point in time.

So that's a lot of that's a lot of checkmarks, obviously. But the overarching theme, I think, is you really need 100 days to be well prepared, knowing that anyone domino could get sideways in there and need some, you know, some manipulation to kind of move on to the next step in the process. And those timelines are very critical.

You want to adhere to them as much as you can.

ASHLEY

They are, you know, and one of the one of the things I was thinking about as you were talking, a lot of our family farms have individuals that have been working on the farm forever. They have this institutional knowledge of the farm, of the operations, of those key critical dates when they need labor, backtracking, when they start looking for labor.

And that's really oversimplifying it. But you have these people that just really understand the operation, the ebb and flow of it. And what happens is what happens to a lot of these farms is this individual either something happens or they don't come in or just they're missing then. So how does the farm kind of pick up and how do they continue to to to move forward without skipping a beat?

And from what I'm hearing from you is that your team is in place, one, to really keep these farms on track, to make sure that they're going to get the labor when they need the labor, you have this intrinsic knowledge of, of the nuances of of what's going on with with the web platforms. If there's there are delays, tricks and tips that that you can use to make sure that, that this whatever you're doing goes, goes through successfully, but also farms that are handling a lot of this.

And they also need to have, you know, more universal knowledge of when these things are due, when these critical dates are, and so that they're not missing them as well. And there are tools in place to, to to make this information more universal. So something that we focus on here is we are working with the scheduling component. And this is really critical, especially with H-2a.

Even if you're working with an agency or not being able to put into place when you need to have things done, and what date in a platform that is accessible to multiple team members is really important. So whether you're filing yourself or whether you're giving this information to Mark and his team, being able to keep yourself on the right path, make sure that this information is visible to your team.

I personally feel is very critical to the success of of the age to a program. Now.

MARK

Comment on that because it's a really good point, Ashley. And this is something that unfortunately, you know, when you mentioned kind of someone having the unique native knowledge of the operation and how that relates to H-2a. That is true particularly on small operations, but even in larger operations, and I personally tend to think of myself as, you know, kind of being okay forever, you know, living forever, being around forever, kind of how I go about my daily life.

The reality is that that's not true. You know, at some point I won't be involved in what I'm involved in. And that's the truth for farms as well. And so we do deal with that where, you know, someone calls us up and says, hey, the person that you've been, you know, that's been your point of contact for some reason, maybe it's extremely unfortunate, you know, death or maybe they've taken another career path or whatever it is.

For some reason, they're no longer here. I'm I don't know anything about this. I need to figure this out. Can you catch me up to speed? And so we want to come along those, you know, alongside those people and help them do that. To your point, guardrails though, in a digital system for for us are the key component even for us as a team.

Internally we're tracking every case. There's guardrails around every case to know what needs to happen next. If something is beyond, you know, a specified time, it's letting us know. And so that's what you're really speaking to here. I think Ashley is making sure that the farm, well, maybe it has a point of contact that sort of manages the process isn't, you know, kind of beholden to that one point of contact being there, but rather that the farm as an organization has others who can access that and be a prize or at least be equipped to work through the process at that point of contact, isn't there.

So I really appreciate that point.

ASHLEY

Yeah. No thank you. And and not to take this too far, but having multiple people aware of your contract and what the rules of the road are really important from the admin aspect to even your your foreman, your crew, bosses, your supervisors. Because the more people you have aware of, of the guidelines of the contract, the more likely they're able to comply with the contract, and that things will won't go as long as they possibly could have.

But going back to your timeline, where do you see timelines break down most often when growers are filing on their own?

MARK

Typically. And I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but many very commonly, it's when something about the filing process has changed and that that happens where some small little change might happen. Maybe department labor sends a notice of deficiency this year, asking for something that they didn't ask for last year. And now that grower doesn't know how to respond to that notice of deficiency.

And there are, you know, kind of fairly strict timelines around responding to a notice of deficiency, or USCIS sends a request for evidence for documentation that they didn't ask for before, or what they really love to do is they change the form. And so you mailed off a form that you thought was going to work, and now they rejected the form because there's a new form.

At the same time they've implemented online filing system. And so there gets to be all this kind of, again, minutia where the employer is basically just delaying the potential for worker arrival unintentionally, just because the grower doesn't know what timelines it has to comply with and requirements has to comply with. So I would say, you know, generally if someone is self filing, they're generally fairly aware of the 60 to 75 day filing window and the notices that they get kind of instruct them along the filing process.

So while those KB problematic, I would say that's generally the exception and not the rule. Primarily, if there's problems with the cell filer, it's something more complicated, like a notice of deficiency or a quest for evidence or a total, you know, form change or policy change or rule change or something along those lines.

ASHLEY

Yeah. No. And again, that that those delays, those delays in the timeline can have real cost to growers. You know, if your employees aren't there when you're ready to start harvesting that, that is critical and that's really going to impact your bottom line. So really making sure that you have the tools in place, the resources in place to really make sure that you're able to to keep on pace is absolutely critical.

MARK

A good note I should add on that or a comma should add on. That is even where you comply with every timeline perfectly on your end. Your end being, you know, the cell filer or us as an agent assisting a grower, you can still not have time to work or arrival. Again, you got five government agencies. There's a ton of paperwork, a ton of process.

And so the propensity for delays along the way is, in my opinion, fairly high. And so in no way am I saying, hey, if you know all the filing requirements and you have, you know, an agency like us kind of guiding you and making sure you meet the guardrails, you're going to have time to work on arrival. I'm not saying that I think it increases the likelihood, but there's always a chance for workers to be delayed in arriving.

ASHLEY

Now, I know that we can't solve all of the problems, but do you do you have a rule of thumb with offering some sort of buffering window at least? You know, again, because you really want to weigh that out, because you don't want to overpay employees. But at the same time, you know, you want to give yourself a little grace.

Do you do you recommend a buffering window at all?

MARK

So that's kind of the jerk solution, you know, hey, if I need workers February 1st, and I know it's fairly unlucky that I'm going to get them timely, maybe a file for a start date of January 10th or something like that. There are a couple of considerations there. One, again, you're limited to the ten months. So if you need workers to go all the way to December 1st, let's say in that example, you can't move your start date up to January 10th because that would take you beyond ten months.

So you're kind of locked into your February 1st start date. So one, you could really only create the so-called buffer if your in date allows you to do so. Okay. The Department of Labor in a compliance investigation commonly looks for a misrepresentation of the need. And we've actually had a wage in our investigator. Tell us verbally that that's a catch all violation basically where they so they'll try to apply this misrepresentation of the need to many things.

But one of them are your dates of need. So if you said in that same example I need workers, let's say February 1st to December 1st, but you actually don't need them until April 1st. And so you bring them in in April. One Department of Labor may say, oh, you misrepresented the need. You actually needed workers in April, and you said you needed them in February.

You were really just trying to avoid hiring US workers because if US workers had known they could start working in April, they would have applied for the job. But they had to they thought they had to start working in February, so they didn't apply. So you've misrepresented the need. So you get into some trouble with Department of Labor.

They're now we'll say Department of Labor has recently backed off a little bit on staggering workers arrival and single contract, which is awesome. Kudos to the department for that. We really love that. So I think it's kind of indicative of maybe a more employer friendly approach to, you know, when the job works as you need workers compared to when they actually come in.

But even with that staggered entry sort of change, they still want you to disclose in the job order. When are you going to be bringing these workers in? So generally the position is don't file for a start date earlier than what you need workers for now, if you need workers earlier than maybe you initially thought you did and you need workers to start January 10th.

Maybe you file for a January 10th, you know, but that's generally the position there.

ASHLEY

That's it. I do really like I really like that they brought the staggered entry deck. I think that it certainly meets that need, you know, and where we help with that staggered entry process is you you have hours offered, hours worked. Right. And you have to be able to capture that because those hours start. And please correct me if I'm wrong as soon as the employee gets there.

So if you have a staggered entry, their specific hours offered begin at their time of arrival. Now, if you have multiple groups right, you're able to capture them independently to really make sure that they're within compliance. So going back we're just going to keep hitting at home. Having the tools in place to make this a manageable process for you really is going to to help you.

It's going to save you some time, and really it's going to to make sure that your guardrails are in place with with utilizing a system like this. From what I've been reading, Mark, H-2a is just something that it's growing. Our unemployment rate is at an all time low, and our need for H-2a workers is just really bursting with more workers in the system.

From your experience, what are auditors and investigators focusing on the most when it comes to compliance with the system?

MARK

Yeah, you're right on that. To the data speaks for itself there. There's a kind of a sharp increase in H-2a usage, particularly over the past ten years or so. And what we used to see on Department of Labor Enforcement action. So wage and hour investigations was well, let's they would they do those basically one of three ways. Either they're totally random.

So sometimes they'll show up to a farm and do a random compliance investigation, or they'll be targeted like their targeted area or a type of employer or something like that, or they're complaint based generally. That's our opinion on that's what triggers a wage. And our investigation, one of those three things. And if you go back like ten years, let's say more commonly we saw saw random wage now investigations.

Now I would say it's almost in our experience almost exclusively complaint based or targeted. And that's just a testament to kind of the lacking of resources at wage and hour division and also the increase in usage of the program. Obviously, more employers using the program, more workers coming in, there's more complaints, you know, more difficult situations. And so, you know, the existing resource that wage now has is spread a bit more thin and less has less capacity to get to random investigations and more so focuses on complaint based or targeted investigations.

So that's what we see. If you're asking me what it's what those are over generally. And again I'm also not saying that they don't happen at random. They do. But you think of the Mississippi Delta task force from a few years ago, where they brought investigators in from other areas, and the goal was to investigate every farm in Mississippi, you know, that was targeted.

Or we had one in Florida a number of years ago where they were their goal was to investigate beekeepers in Florida, because the concept was that there was sort of rampant noncompliance of beekeepers in Florida. So they were targeting the type of employer. So there are those. But if the question is, what do we see kind of creating the investigation where it's complaint based or targeted, generally it's related to how workers are being handled, you know, as it relates to wages or working conditions or reimbursements or something of that nature.

You know, Dol if they're doing an investigation, do they really care if an employer has the employee rights poster up? They do. Not saying they don't. But is that quite as critical as workers? Let's say being paid $2 an hour or below the minimum or something like that. I mean, they're both important, you know, and I'm not condoning noncompliance in some areas and not in others.

But I'm just saying wage is really there to protect and serve workers. And so they want to take care of workers. That's what they're looking for.

ASHLEY

Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And then to I guess to ask you a little bit about documentation. So regardless of why Wage and Hour is there, regardless of how, whether it was a targeted approach, a random or a complaint based reason for investigators to be there when you have to a or just employees on your farm, you're you have required documentation that you need to be able to provide.

What issues do you see most frequently when it comes to farms and what information they're required to show, but where they typically struggle to actually show something? Are you seeing any anything consistent?

MARK

Yeah, the low hanging fruit for wage and hour on that is it seems elementary and it kind of is. But you know, they'll often look for a clock in, clock out records which many farms do. Some don't. What often happens is maybe they had it for this year in a season before, but they don't have it for three years ago or something like that.

So you got to store that for three years, particularly if it's paper, but clock and clock out records. And then you mentioned earlier or alluding to the hours offered earlier when you were speaking to the court guarantee. That's something that is often not provided to workers on an earnings statement on a before each payday, and also not maintained by employers in their records.

So you do have to have hours offered in both locations. It can't just be, you know, the hours that are worked. They could be the same number, but you've got to have record that you're collecting both. And then this is kind of a silly one. But we will look to see if the employer's federal ID number is on the earnings statement that's provided to workers on or before each payday.

Now, I've asked workers before, do you care what your employers in is. And I've never had one say yes, but wage and hour cares if it's on the earnings statement because it's in the regulations that you have to have. Right. So these are low hanging fruit ones, but they'll always look for those. And FieldClock takes care of them.

So that's what I really like about FieldClock ticking. You're using it you know your eins on your earnings statement. You know hours offered is on your earnings statement and in your records. And you know, you have your clock in and your clock out data readily available to you to square the issue away. If wage now comes and asks for those items.

ASHLEY

Yeah. No. Absolutely. And we were talking I feel like we're building up to this. So we're talking about your team making sure that your team has access to all this information, making sure that your entire team is aware of your H-2a contracts, not just for administration owners, but also your foremen. Because, again, if wage and hour comes out and investigators come out, you know, they're going to be asking some questions.

So the more people that are well informed and understand the contract and those guardrails, it is critical. And also from what I'm hearing to from Mark, it's also the transparency that you provide to your employees. So being able to right up front be able to break out their pay. Why am I getting paid this? What is the breakout?

And making sure that if they if they had a question, not that they would, but if they had a question, it's it's transparent to them because especially with farms that are handling really, really difficult pay calculations of piecework, all of those things to be able to explain in the very simple way why they receive that rate is is critical.

And take that a year from now. You need to specifically explain what actually made and why she made it. Having accuracy in your information, making sure that it's easy to pull is going to be very critical. So not only does FieldClock make it easy to give the employees that transparency, so we provide worker gross wage statements across all of our platforms simply by using the system.

So you can not only give it to employees, but you can also have it in your record. So someone comes out, you quickly grab it, pull it, share it, and you can explain why actually made what she made and what we're seeing. And what I'm seeing is that a lot of farms have this informal process to their approach when it comes to timekeeping, you know, where they're filling out hand timesheets, punch marks, things like that, where it doesn't have the math, it doesn't have the calculation, it doesn't have the transparency.

And if for some reason maybe they don't fill out their time card, the we'll sort it out later approach really can come back and bite them. Because as wage and hour comes out and they're asking all of these questions and they're asking for all this information, if you pull up a time card that's incomplete, that's a really, really big red flag.

MARK

That's a good point. And I really like your point about the worker having transparency, too, because, you know, it's not all about the employer being compliant, but it's it's largely also about the worker having access to their data and understanding what they're being paid. And I believe that's the intent behind the rule. Anyways, I kind of made the joke about workers not caring about the employers, and that's true.

But the worker does want to know what am I being paid for, how much am I being paid? And they want to be able to look back on that and reference that. And I think that's a key component in, you know, taking care of your workforce. And, and it's easier to be square with your workers and make sure everyone understands and is on the same page.

Then to try to deal with that after someone has gotten disgruntled and wage and hour is now getting involved, it's also less costly to deal with it up front. So having transparency between employer and worker and everyone being on the same page and being able to deal with any issues or disagreements that arise when that happens, as compared to after Department of Labor has gotten involved, I think is almost invaluable.

ASHLEY

Yeah, yeah, I have a number of questions I'd like to ask you, but I'm going to skip along here because we're we're having a great conversation. I wanted to switch quickly to just wage volatility and rule changes, because what we're seeing is that things have changed drastically, especially over the last couple of years. So in your opinion, how often are you seeing these interpretation changes and and what are your recommendations really for growers when when things switch mid-season.

Because from and I'm not going to say this the right way, but based on their time frames now, there could be a rate change in the middle of their season, you know, how are they aware of this? What can they do to prepare and what does that look like?

MARK

Yeah, this that's a good question too. So I was thinking about this and I was presenting at a bit not long ago, and I was thinking about the same topic if we go back over the last five years, so go five years ago, but then look back five years before that. So, you know, 5 to 10 years ago there was rule changes kind of happening.

The Department of Labor always sort of changes position positions on things year over year. But in terms of really impactful rule changes, there wasn't a ton going on 5 to 10 years ago. Now, if you take today and go back five years, there has been a tremendous amount of rulemaking. I mean, quite the onslaught of rule making. And so there's a lot to stay on top of their, and it adds a lot of nuance, but particularly around wages.

It used to be fairly straightforward. When you use H-2a, of course, you've got to agree to pay the highest of the federal or state minimum wage, the prevailing wage, the agreed upon collective bargaining wage, or the adverse effect wage rate, which we call the a word for short. And it was almost always the A where and in some cases maybe prevailing wage was applicable, but almost always the A where and there was one A where per state didn't matter what job you were doing it just if it was in a it was one wage per state.

All right. So then in 2023 the department changes that and they have this this new a rule which brings in other wages. You have these wages on top of the awareness. Now there are different wages in each state for different job classifications. So that was a layer of complexity now last quarter. So the last quarter of 2025, the Department of Labor puts out another rulemaking which takes that a step further.

And now there are different categories of wages in each state. So each state has its own set of wages skill one and skill two wages. And then there are US obligations and then H-2a wages that are compensated for under each category. And you have different ways wages still you have the A and wages. So all that to say there's a lot of moving pieces.

And on wages specifically there's a tremendous amount of moving pieces. What you're speaking to athlete is historically the a where's adjusted January 1st roughly give or take a little bit. But they adjusted January 1st generally speaking. And so for growers they kind of maybe that fell mid process of the job order. But they at least knew when the season started.

It started if it started in January, February, March through September or whatever. Let's say they, they knew what their wage was going to be for the season with this new rule. It changes. It's going to change in July. So those wages are going to update for many growers made contract. And so being able to shift on the fly basically to these new wages, if they go up and say go down, of course you can't drop your wages.

But assuming that they go up, you need to build a shift on the fly, change those wages across your workforce the day that they're effective, and be able to show that you've done that. And again, that's where Field Call can be super powerful in getting that done.

ASHLEY

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one of the things that I just I keep I keep hearing as you're talking and kind of being thankful for too, is, you know, there are so many changes. There's so many different rules and regulations. Things are constantly evolving. And, you know, farmers, we're all doing the best we can. We're working. We're working on our farms day in, day out.

And sometimes we're just not aware of what's happening around us. So it's incredibly important again, that just being able to work as a team, have your team understand what's happening, be aware of changes that are coming and really have the resources that they need to understand these changes. So working with a reputable agency, being a Farm Bureau member, utilizing your Farm Bureau resources, your county meetings to really understand the rules that are coming, what's happening now, what may happen in the future really is critical for your operation.

And also, the other practical piece of this is really having the right tools and systems so that as things change and when they change quickly, you're able to pivot and make those adjustments. And those adjustments with these tools don't feel overwhelming. They're not incredibly time consuming. So instead of taking hours, it's a quick adjustment and you're staying in compliance, you know, and then for your team, again, that transparency piece is really, really big.

I do want to jump to some questions, but the last question I have for you before we handle some of those is as H-2a becomes, I would say, more of the norm instead of the exception. What do farms need to start doing sooner than later so that they can handle this program more successfully?

MARK

You mean, are you asking specifically about farms that are interested in using the program for the first time?

ASHLEY

Yeah, I would, I would say that, yes.

MARK

Yeah, yeah. I think for someone for a form that's kind of gearing up to use age 12 for the first time, you know, again, making sure that they have a good understanding of what the obligations of the program are. You know, so many of those have fiscal impacts. So, you know, history and have provide housing had no cost to the workers.

They got to secure housing. If they're in an area that has a lack of available housing, they got to start the process of getting that figured out before they can, you know, get into that filing window that I referenced earlier. Many forms don't have worker's compensation coverage already. And so when using H-2a you have to have evidence of worker's compensation.

So that's a that's a process, you know, working with your insurance agent to get a quote, get a policy established. You got to know what that quote is because you got to figure that in to your considerations when you're evaluating whether or not the cost of the program works for you, you know, and just preparing the system to to handle workers coming from another country, you know, it makes sense.

Workers coming. You had mentioned earlier that something like you were saying that a farm has to try to figure out how many workers that it needs. That's a good point on H-2a is you're you're kind of want to evaluate your need a little bit differently than you probably historically have with US workers, and that when, you know, I kind of the way we kind of look at it is, you know, if you have a job that needs one, two US workers, it maybe only needs one H-2a worker because the worker is here for work specifically and basically exclusively.

You know, they don't have a family or events or whatever, which I'm not speaking about that positively and negatively. I'm just saying that's the reality. And so, you know, you want to take a close look at your the scope of work and try to, from the onset, figure out how does H-2a serve my farm the best? You basically like create a plan and then and then implement that plan accordingly.

ASHLEY

Very cool, very cool. Now we do have some we do have some questions in the Q&A. So if it's okay. I'd like to ask you. Yep. All right. We have we have someone who asked if an employee elects out of us withholding taxes. Do we have do we have to withhold Medicare and Social Security? And if they elect to have taxes withheld, do we withhold all employment taxes?

MARK

Well, I'm not a tax expert, but generally workers are exempt from fecha entirely. So they're totally exempt from that tax. And they're exempt from federal income tax withholding. So an employer only should withhold for federal income tax where the worker asks the employer to withhold and the employer agrees. So I'm going to send and say if I put a link in the chat, everyone can see it, right?

ASHLEY

Yes.

MARK

All right. I'm going to put a.

ASHLEY

Link I believe so. And if not, I believe so.

MARK

All right. I just put a link in the chat. There's a link to the IRS website on H-2a taxes specifically. But again, generally they're exempt from it entirely that are exempt from upholding workers should file a return and pay any taxes due. But it's for the employer the only make the you only withhold if the worker asks you to and you agree.

ASHLEY

Okay. Very cool. All right. We have another question here. Says is there a limit on daily and weekly hours for an H to a employee to work?

MARK

So, you know, when we're filing the application to the state workforce agency, the Department of Labor, part of that application includes a job order. And I look at the job order like, say, it's 15 pages or so. You want to think of the job order, like if you went to your local Dollar General, you know, and handed that job order to someone that's never been on a farm in their life, would they have a good understanding of the terms conditions of employment?

Would they know what it's going to look like to work on your farm? And if the answer is no, then the job order isn't accurate and needs to be revised. If the answer is yes, you've done a good job, and on that job order, you establish a number of things. You know, the job duties and job requirements, worksite housing, address, etc. and included in those items is the anticipated hours per week.

So farming. I know we all on this call. Note it's not like Walmart. It's not shift work. You know it's not finite and granular. Some weeks you're going to have very few hours work because of implement, whether other weeks are going to have a tremendous number of hours worked because, you know, things are all going to enroll it.

And so while you while there's going to be ebbs and flows kind of on the job order, you basically say what your anticipated hours per week is. So to answer the question, though, there is no limit on how many hours a worker can work in a week, if the employer offers the worker the hours and the worker wants to work them.

Basically the sky is the limit. What you want to be careful of is having what you offer the worker be dramatically different than what's on that job order, so you wouldn't want to say, okay, the anticipated hours per week is 35 hours per week over the contract period, and then the worker's average over the whole contract period, 75 hours, let's say that's right.

For wage now to come in and say, oh, you misrepresented the need as we talked about earlier, and assess the civil money penalty. So again the answer is no, no limit. They can work as many hours as you can offer them. Basically, you just want to make sure that your contract or your job order in other words aligns with that.

ASHLEY

Yeah I couldn't agree more. And one of one of the things that, you know, I really appreciate, you know, our relationship with Mark and his team and the things that we're learning to is, you know, if you're using the program and you have your contract in place, great. Use a system that captures all of those tasks and have it aligned in the same way that Mark is saying, whatever tasks are listed on your H-2a contract, those are the only tasks that your employees can select from.

Therefore, when wage and hour does an investigation, there's no deviation from what's on the contract. They're only selecting the jobs that are available to them. And there's a record of it. And that's that's incredibly important.

MARK

Absolutely.

ASHLEY

Quick shout out to Mr. Williams. Thank you for attending. Mr. Warren Williams is a former wage and hour investigator from Georgia, and I rely on him heavily when I look into and research things. He made a couple great points that I'd like to share, and then we'll wrap this up. He let us know that employees, knowing how they get paid and what they're getting paid for, really avoids complaints.

And his second point is that rule making are also a result of gray areas and enforcement and trying to make a rule to enforce that, that trying to make a rule to enforce increases violations. So just wanted to share some thoughts from Mr. Williams. I'm going to close up anything from you, Mark, before we close.

MARK

No I'm good. Thank you for the opportunity today and always appreciate visiting with you. H-2a is for many may not be that enjoyable for some reason. I really love it and so I apologize if I were able to on there a little bit. And so know any questions. If they're you know, if they're self filing, they got questions around the process or working with another filer or us or whatever.

They have questions. You can always reach us. We have one phone number, one email. So we're super easy to get Ahold of. We're happy to help.

ASHLEY

Absolutely. Even if they're out baling hay. Just wanted to say thank you to Mark for joining us today. Your knowledge is invaluable, and I appreciate the opportunity to do this with you and look forward to to doing this again. Wanted to also say say thank you to Florida Farm Bureau for their partnership for help promoting this to the members, because this is something that is incredibly important.

And as I wrap up, I just want to leave you with this. Hope is manageable, but it's process driven. And farms that do well aren't perfect, but they are prepared. And with the right agency, the right systems, and the right documentation, they make all the difference. And you don't have to navigate this alone. Florida Farm Bureau, add replacements and FieldClock are all here as resources.

So thank you for being here today, the work you do and for continuing to invest in doing this the right way. Thank you all so much for joining us.