Small Farms, Big Returns

Transcript

ASHLEY

Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us. My name is Ashley Reese and I'm with FieldClock, and I'm really excited to be here today alongside Sarah Black from Great Lakes Ag Labor Services and to bring in a farmer perspective, Gerrit Herrygers from Herrygers Farms in Michigan. We're here today because labor continues to be one of the biggest challenges facing farms, not just finding it, but understanding how to plan for it, manage it, and ultimately make it work in a way that supports your operation long term.

We're going to walk through how farms are securing labor today, especially through H-2A, where things tend to get complex and what happens once workers are actually on site, and how all of these connect back to profitability and long term viability for your operation. And our goal is simple. We want to share real experiences, highlight where farms tend to struggle, and give you a clearer picture of how to approach labor in a way that's manageable and sustainable.

So with that, let's start at the beginning. How farms are actually securing labor today. So, Sara, thank you again for joining us. I think my first question is how farms are actually securing labor today and where things really start to break down, especially for smaller operations.

SARAH

Thanks, Ashley, and thanks for having me as a part of the webinar today. I think it's really important to kind of set the background, first of how we got here today and a little bit about H-2A and why it is so important today. H-2A growth has really exploded all over the country. And actually if you go to that first slide, you can see that it's all types and sizes of farms that need the labor.

The this is some data that Michigan State University Extension has put together. But you can really see the growth and you can see that there's a shortage. And the shortage has really exploded over the last decade. I mean, only a decade ago, you only had about 15% of farms reporting having a labor shortage. And now today it's about 50%.

So I think that illustrates part of the reason why we're having this conversation today is that the labor market is very different. And if you go to the next one, it also shows you that in addition to more than half of our farms having a labor shortage, it's really extensive. I mean, most farms on average have a 20% shortage annually, and for some farms it's 100%.

So you know what's really real for farms today, and especially our farmers are smaller farms as they really often struggle the most, when they're first considering H-2a, by waiting too long. And so I think thinking that maybe the program's only for large farms, that they can't use it. But a great part of H-2a is it can work on any size farm.

It doesn't matter how small or how large your farm is. It's a labor need, and it's a solution for the labor shortages that we're seeing. So I think where farms struggle sometimes, is there a they think I don't think this is for me, that's just for the large farms. And then they really become overwhelmed with the complexity, the regulatory compliance, all the paperwork, not knowing where to start, where to even find a compatible team member for their farm and so it's really important for farms to, to do their homework and to understand to understand what the cost is, what the cost benefit analysis is for bringing in H-2a labor and then being able

to have access to the right data to make the good, the good decisions. So they just need help, and they need to know where they can get help and how to get started.

ASHLEY

Yeah. No, I love that Sarah and I just taking a step back, bringing everything into full context to. So the reason why we're all here today really is, is through our partnership with, Ohio Farm Bureau. So Ohio Farm Bureau and Farm Bureau in general is the voice of agriculture. They are the ones that farmers really rely on for regulatory information, for all different rules and regulations that are coming out that impact their operation.

But not only that, it's how to translate these rules and regulations into, practical day to day. What does that mean to my farm? And I think it's important to recognize that, actually, Great Lakes Ag Labor Services, Sarah Black's operation, is working in partnership with Farm Bureau and I know you can elaborate on this a little bit more, but the fact that we're so connected, you're so connected to Farm Bureau means you have, you know, your finger on the pulse with what's happening, what's changing.

And more than that, you're a resource and a way to understand what's happening in a way. Maybe some other operations aren't. You're able to answer questions for farmers that and go above and beyond in a way that can really help them. Like you were just saying, and I don't know if you could elaborate on that a little bit more, but I really want our, our listeners to understand the connection between Great Lakes and Ohio Farm Bureau.

SARAH

Yeah, absolutely. Great Lakes Ag Labor Services is an affiliate company of Michigan Farm Bureau. So the sister farm Bureau to the north were all one big Farm Bureau family across the country. But our farmer members, pleaded with our board about 15 years ago to help them find a new labor source and to help navigate this complicated system.

So we're a Farm Bureau service. We partner with Ohio Farm Bureau and several other State Farm bureaus, to help farmers and members in Ohio do the same thing that we do in Michigan, helped to navigate this complicated H-2a program to hopefully make it simpler. But really, in the end, for the farm to have success with a, a legal, a stable, and a reliable labor force that can supplement their team.

So we're here to work with Ohio farmers, just like we do in other parts of the Midwest.

ASHLEY

But thank you so much for that context. Now, just thinking about, labor shortages using H-2a. Sarah, what would you say one of the biggest hurdles farms underestimate before getting started with H-2a?

SARAH

Great question. And I think that is the most important conversation that we have right up front with farms in the H-2a program. You have to provide housing for the workers, and that housing has to go through a process of inspection and licensing and whatnot ahead of time. So you really have to have that housing piece figured out first.

And it takes time and preparation. Well, event in advance of even starting your H-2a contract. So you really got to start early. If you go to the next slide, this kind of gives you an idea of if your housing is already ready, it's inspected and it's licensed, then you're really talking about a minimum a bare minimum of 90 to 120 days.

A lot of farms actually start about thinking about H-2a and working on getting things ready a whole year in advance, because in some states it takes a lot. The housing process takes a lot longer, and you have a lot of things you gotta figure out in your business for the record keeping piece and the payroll. So, you really want to start 3 to 4 months ahead of time.

And then there's a very successive and time specific filing process. Once all the pieces are in place that your H-2a provider is going to work through. So don't think you're going to call somebody that does H-2a and say, hey, I need, you know, ten guys to show up here in a couple of weeks. Can you make that happen?

Because legally you can't make that happen.

ASHLEY

You're just throwing in here. There's just some context for you. This is your first year as a or second year as a fixed site employer. So last year was your first year working with, Great Lakes Ag Labor Services? And just thinking about, you know, what you guys were thinking about last year as far as housing, I guess.

What were some of the thoughts or conversations that were going on, prior to you pulling in their services?

GERRIT

So ultimately, I've been aware of this of the Great Lakes Ag Labor service firm since its inception. And a lot of times it was trying to make the decision whether it made financial sense for us to do it or not. The housing for us was a little, slightly less of a concern than others may, where we had sufficient housing, because we were employing employees before this, for hand harvest labor crops.

Ultimately it was okay, where do we need to move, folks that we would bring to kind of keep them separate from let's current workforce through a contractor. Right. So it was trying to find a sufficient capacity house that we would move for those that was a little bit less of an issue for us. We had again hemmed and hawed and talked about it for a few years with back and forth Great Lakes, trying to make it make sense, to be a fixit employer ourselves.

Some of that was okay for us. We were ingrained again. I, my brother and I are the fourth generation on the farm. We've just been brought up. We just work harder. You just work harder. You just work harder and you do a little bit more. You work harder. And that's what we did. To the point where then you have kids and you have to realize that there it is, 24 hours in a day.

That is still a thing. But you they have some expectation to see you at some point in those days. So for us, it was trying to, step back and say we need to, find some folks to take over some of our, some of our tasks. I think all too often, small, smaller family farms, just try to take the burden on their back and, and.

Okay, we can do 10% more, every year, every year, every year. Well, it becomes, a barrier to grow, I guess, to an extent. So we we then looked at, the H-2a conversation bringing internal, equipment operators or external, I should say, via the H-2a program, where while we were struggling to find local, help in that sense, for years, we were able to find, summer help, maybe be at, high school or college kids that would be around locally.

And those folks are fewer and far between, as people have had less kids the last couple of generations. We don't have that local workforce that would be tractor drivers or operators through those harvest periods for us either. So, for us it was, a necessary evil, I guess, in a sense where of being a fixed employer enable us then to have some, autonomy over what we are doing.

Our, our able to focus more on, I would say, management tasks and tasks that were made could make us money rather than things that, were necessities sitting behind a, tractor steering wheel all the time. Which, don't get me wrong, hand of God love doing that more than any of the management side, but, it wasn't going to move the needle where we needed to move the needle.

So working with Great Lakes Ag Labor has pulled it all together where we have some, flexibility, I guess, to, manage better, do better. And they've taken a lot of the burden off as far as the back side stuff that I don't have the bandwidth to worry about.

ASHLEY

Now that's great. And that's really important to, to to talk about. And I wish these conversations happened a little bit more, as farmers really do take on the burden, they take on the burden of just new regulations coming out. They take on the burden of not having labor, and even they take on the, the back end of, of complexity with compliance and paperwork.

And there's more and more paperwork required every single year. So finding services like Great Lakes is really is helpful. And also finding tools that work for your operation that reduce that burden as well is is essential, especially as farms are running, more lean every year. So going back to what we were talking about as well, what needs to be in place, because you had mentioned that farms need to think about these things a year in advance, at least four years, four months in advance to to get these contracts in place.

What would you tell farms that they need to have in place early on that they typically overlook?

SARAH

Yeah, actually, thanks a lot. If you want to go to the next slide, I think the most important thing is to take a little bit of time to understand what is H-2a, because it's not necessarily what some people describe it as. So you really want to understand how it's structured and how it works, and know that it's not something that you're going to jump into quickly.

There's a lot of connected pieces and regulatory requirements that need good data, that need recordkeeping, an attention. And it's just important to understand that this is a program that's meant to help fill, and supplement your team, supplement your workforce, not replace it. It's only for agriculture. And it's for temporary, temporary or seasonal jobs. It's not for Year-Round employment.

So number one is take a take a little time to understand the program. Next slide number two is know that there is a very complicated time specific in successive filing process that has to be completed in order and by someone that knows what they're doing. So take your time and research to figure out someone that knows H-2a inside out and knows the different, pieces that go with it, because it's very easy to unintentionally get yourself and your operation into trouble because you don't know what you don't know.

And this is not an easy program to navigate. So having someone help you that understands it and can walk alongside you is really important. And then even if you flip to the next one, understanding your business. Farm businesses are so much more complicated today than they were even 20 years ago. And so there are different types of models that work for H-2a.

Garrett kind of describe that a little bit in his comments about working with a labor contractor, becoming a fixed site employer. There's an association model where farms can work together in association but share the liability. So there's different models. But again, understanding how your farm is set up, what's best for your farm, what needs are you trying to accomplish, and then figuring out somebody that you can work with that understands all of that and can put it together.

So from a risk standpoint, there are it's a lot of it is the risk of the unknown and not understanding the complexity of the program. So if you move to the next one you need to understand what your requirements are as an employer. And this is part of that. Risk aversion is understanding if I jump into this, these are the things that I have to know that my operation and my business are doing correctly as a part of H-2a so that I'm in compliance.

There are several big buckets, and you can see some of them on the screen there. We're not going to get into a ton of the H-2a requirements today. But again, from a risk standpoint, knowing about H-2a, doing your research and finding a good employer and then really understanding what your requirements are as an employer is important because it's not when you're going to get audited, you are going to get audited.

And so and there are significant fines for things that may seem simple or insignificant, because it's just part of how the program was designed. So I think overall, take time to learn and invest in this decision because it's a big one and it's a big one that has potentially a lot of complications, both monetary and, even potentially being debarred from the program if, if something goes wrong that you didn't know about.

So do your homework, understand it, and understand the process involved.

ASHLEY

Yeah. And I would I would also say to, making sure that you're working with some sort of organization or a resource that will keep you up to date with changes because things are moving pretty quickly. Things change all the time. So making sure that you're connected to a group, an organization that updates you and let you know when things change as they change.

Because when things change, especially with, you know, I guess the cost of labor or a different rule or regulation, you need to be able to implement that quickly and in real time with the employers that you currently have. So it's really important that that you you work with a team that you trust that really keeps you, you know, up to date with everything.

So Garrett, back to you. You talked a little bit about, using, a farm labor contractor and now, working with Great Lakes Ag Labor Services, thinking back to when you made the decision to be a fixed site employer, what made you decide to move in that direction? Instead of utilizing, labor contractor for all of your labor needs.

GERRIT

So ultimately, for us, and we currently still do employ labor contractors for, for hand harvest crops. A lot of that is our managerial limitation on our and for, managing a short season crop and being able to, bring in those folks and keep them busy for that contract period. For us, we are very labor heavy in in the spring from May to end of June, and then we don't have a lot of hand harvest labor crops, until the fall from September through early November.

So for us, bringing in that large of workforce for hand harvest labor, ourselves was a harder, harder sell, I guess, to, to manage that. And ultimately, for us was just not feasible. So we chose to keep using labor contractors through that portion and ultimately pay for the management of those folks. Where we were struggling was finding, labor contractors at that time that would deal with smaller farms for equipment operators.

So for us, it was more of a struggle that, okay, we may have, the Hannah Harborside figured out and we and quote unquote did do but, the actual equipment operation and a lot of the day to day, tasks we were lacking, we were taking the brunt of that. And again, it was a limitation to grow.

So it was if we can fill those spots, then it makes more sense. So for us. Yep. Again, it was a necessary evil that we have to do that there isn't the labor contract model. A contractor model isn't necessarily set up well for that. And at least locally, in my opinion, where those folks, can bring small amounts of people in and move them around on a day to day basis.

The management side, is a little stickier, more gray when you start doing those things with labor contractors. Labor contractors a lot of times work very well with bringing in a busload of individuals to hand harvest that day. The next day and every day we're very repetitive, and that's great. But when I need, that individual to do ten different tasks that day on ten different farms, that labor contractor, would that have to go move those individuals from farm to farm and move them around?

And ultimately, there's a middle man that I'm talking to dealing with and it just gets muddy. You start at trying to have a conversation with the labor contractor because they are the employer of those individuals and, you just lose efficiency. So for us, it made much more sense on that standpoint. If we're going to do it, we're biting the bullet and we're going to employ these folks through the H-2a program.

And by once cry once, I guess, is what ultimately it what it was. We're going to learn it. We're going to figure it out. We have to if we're going to succeed and continue on this, it's just not, feasible for us to continue, the path we were trying to and we were in a growth hour in a growth phase, and and we need to do it early.

I again, I think Sarah mentioned it before, but a lot of times people do it too late. We should have probably done it two years before, three years before. I don't know what that year would have been, but a lot of it was just the uncertainty, not knowing, thinking, man, this is expensive. What can we afford to do it without without this program?

And a lot of it was just not knowing either. It was not knowing, because a lot of times you as an individual and again, as a farm owner, farm manager, you're not tracking a lot of those costs your day to day is you're not it's it's kind of value of unpaid management. Right. So you're you're going through doing the job because it has to be done.

And you don't know how many hours it takes to do anything you don't know. How many people equivalent you need. I mean, I may be able to do a task 20% faster than an employee is, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's still my best use of time. And that was a hard pill for me to swallow as as we stepped into this, it was, okay, I can get this done now, whereas I want to have this guy doing it a day and a half, where it could take me a day.

And that's just not efficient. But that's just how I, I was ingrained growing up and the the backing off and being becoming more of a manager and figuring this out has allowed us to to grow our business and be more successful and poised for the future, I should say. So. A lot of the the H-2a thing again, was, I guess, not really scary.

I wouldn't say I was scared of it, but it was just the uncertainty. But I think we've navigated that with the help of Great Lakes Again and definitely feel more comfortable on your tail. Knowing you don't know what you don't know until you get into it. And that's probably the the scary, uncertain part. But I've been through it a little over a year, year and a half now.

We knew what to expect, and we were able to get ahead of it, get ahead of the ball, in our preseason planning and and figure out the things that we did get done, what we didn't get done. Maybe we needed one more person, two more people. We're able to analyze those things better and have a better plan going into 2026.

Where I felt more comfortable going into this season.

ASHLEY

Now, one of the things that I liked is that you recognized that you really needed more control over your equipment operators, and by having more control and by managing them directly, you would be able to just, I guess, maximize on their time now working, being in control of that contract, if you will, being in control of who you're hiring to fill those positions.

Are there any recommendations or things that you've learned through the process about what you're looking forward to? How how to get, I guess, the right operators? Because, again, all of our all of our farming operations are so nuanced and different, you know, so whether you're doing a lot of row crops or you're doing tree fruit, the, operators that you need need to have some skills.

Right? So how are you finding the experience? Are you able to kind of control a little bit who you're bringing onto the farm and making sure that they have the experience needed?

GERRIT

Yeah. Great question. So ultimately we've worked with Great Lakes Ag. VA who are they are using a South African, recruiter that we are working through, for us. So ultimately we say this is what our farm operation does. This is what we would like, and our job description, what our experiments or experience requirement would be, and kind of the, the typical tractor that we would be using.

Okay. Let's they need to be able to operate a 100 horse or two tractor, whatever it may be. So the orchard, the vegetable or orchard type side may be a little more nuanced than a row crop operation, where the requirement may be a slightly different because we're running smaller stuff a lot of times get through the orchard.

So a lot of it's just working with the recruiter and trying to narrow down. And we've we've had great luck thus far getting knock on wood, of getting a decent candidate pool the first year we were probably a little later to the game. And again, that's just not knowing. By the time we got everything started, a lot of times the folks that are ingrained in the H-2a program in these other countries, if they're good, a lot of times they're staying with their employers.

Right. So it's it's trying to find who isn't and, and why they aren't, and trying to navigate through that. We were fortunate in our first year that we had folks that that did well, and we invited all of them back actually from for 2026. And they are all out here currently. So it all all was great from, from that end.

But ultimately working through, making sure you've got your job description set, knowing what those tasks are so those folks can help you. Again, it's not all on you that you're looking through 400 resumes through folks. It's it's working with Great Lakes Ag who's working with, the recruiters in those side countries, whether it be, Mexico, South Africa, wherever you're, you're trying to find workers from.

So ultimately, they're, they're then narrowing the scope down for you. And, and it's totally fine for you to tell them. Nope. These are applicable to me. Can you get me a new batch of employees or people to choose from? Right. So they're doing a lot of that screening, I guess, which is saves tremendous amount of time on the farm side as well.

But ultimately it's working with those individuals to to help narrow.

ASHLEY

Now, last question for this, this section, going back to last year and again now putting this in place this year, is there something that you learned last year that you didn't really expect?

GERRIT

That I didn't really expect? I didn't know what to expect as.

GERRIT

Learn and realistically, I didn't know what I didn't know. And that's what what I've said before is one of the struggles probably getting into being a fixed site employer. Yes, we had employed, domestic labor. A lot of them were retired folks or semi-retired folks and, that were from the area. Right. And it's something you don't think about when you bring in people from out of town or from out of out of the country, more or less.

But it's little nuanced things that you can't tell them to go down the road to the barn with the old tree and turn left, and that's where the field is, or the orchard is. Right. A lot of that little management tasks were more difficult. That wasn't something that I considered. I mean, should have, but it didn't. But some of that just trying to help, navigate it was physically navigation with some of it that was probably more difficult from that, that I didn't expect, but a lot of the other stuff, again, I had, at least an awareness level, if not higher of what to expect.

It was just, small things here and there that were okay. Yep. I will be better prepared for that coming into next year. Knowing those things.

ASHLEY

Okay, cool. Well, thank you for that. So now we've talked about, I guess the need for labor. And ultimately how to secure it. But once a farm decides to move forward and become a fixed, site employer, that's where, I guess complexity really starts to show up. As far as, really managing employees. Sarah, what would you say that farms underestimate, once they actually decide to move forward?

When it comes to the day to day.

SARAH

Yeah. Thanks, Ashley. I think Garrett alluded to this and and articulated it really well in one of the primary things that you have to understand is when the workers get on site, what then happens? You've really got to invest time in training them and helping them to understand your operation, to learn your operation, you've got to spend time onboarding and developing that team, because you're going to invest a ton of time and money into this resource.

And like Garrett said, and you get these phenomenal workers. The great part of H-2a is you get to bring them back next year if they want to come back, so you can get a return team member. So you do have to provide clear direction and supervision and coaching, and you've got to give them like Juris like Garrett said, a job description that's updated, clear work rules.

You got to enforce those work rules. They want to know what's expected of you as an employer, just like you want to be able for them to be able to complete the tasks that you need for that day. So investing time in onboarding and trading and knowing that that first year is going to be a lot of that.

And then hopefully when you get those workers back in year two, they know your operation. They know your expectations. They're going to hit the ground running. A big part of that is having the right tracking systems and the right management systems in place. And Garrett alluded to this as well. There's a lot of things that you need to be ready to track, to be able to have data, to be able to work on the business and not in the business.

When he talked about, yeah, I could do that task in an hour, and it's going to take this new employee that doesn't understand my farm an hour and a half. But now Garrett gets to take that hour to work on his business. And so, time and keeping, understanding the data that's coming in from the work that the workers are doing to payroll, to you name it, to be able to get all those pieces together as the owner and the manager of your operation, to be able to say, okay, how can I use this to be better, to be more productive, to work on growing the business versus just being swallowed up by the

day to day working in the business? So I think there's a lot of that day to day operational stuff that H-2a can help with. And then other tools like FieldClock layer on to help, farmers really be able to up their management skills and to be able to make better decisions.

ASHLEY

Yeah, absolutely. And just to layer on to that too. So you have your contract that's in place and then you now need to execute it. And that's really important. And I think that there's a lot of time that's spent in preparation, which rightfully so. But once your employees are actually there, there are a number of things that you need to do to remain in compliance, making sure that you're capturing your employer's, entire day.

Where are they working? What rates are they being paid, and then how am I able then to show those employees what they're being paid so that this way, you know, we're all on the same page and there's no miscommunication. And it's it's also bigger than that miscommunication too. It really comes down to compliance. I need to prove that I'm paying my employees exactly how I have agreed in my contract and and pull that information quickly.

That becomes very challenging, especially when it comes to farms that have more complexity. Lies like piecework. There are lots of rules in place. And piecework pay. I'm now losing my words, wage adjustments that are really difficult to explain, show proof and then be able to pull years later. I mean, a lot of times farms are really working with memory or just writing things down on pieces of paper.

And if there are any adjustments made or math equations that are difficult, it's really hard to explain a couple days later, let alone a couple of years. So I think that that layer is also challenging as well. So I, I couldn't agree more. Having the right tools and tracking systems in place is absolutely critical. Sarah, what like what are some risks that farms are taking without realizing it?

SARAH

I think a lot of the risk relate to what you just described, and it's making sure that you have the right documentation and the right records in the event of an audit. And there are lots of different types of entities that can come to your farm to audit you. When you get into H-2a, that list kind of grows.

And so I think payroll and payroll records are the number one risk in terms of compliance. And again, it gets at what you were saying. Actually there are these employer requirements as you see on the screen. You've got to guarantee that those workers get three quarters of the hours of the contract. So how do you know if they're getting three quarters?

Well, you got to have the documentation and the tracking software, to know what hours they're getting. You have to also track hours offered versus hours worked. And that's an H-2a thing. And it gets back into a whole nother topic that we don't want to talk about today, about how the H-2a program has all these requirements from the 1960s and the 1980s, because it hasn't been updated or modernized by then.

But it is what what it is, what we have today. So understanding that I've got to have a system in place to know, I offered them ten hours today, but they only worked six because it rained half the day or whatever it is. Having the documentation, the tracking and the record keeping to be able to say, in Garretts case, here's what we did last year, here's our payroll records, here's our time records, etc..

To prevent any opportunities that you might get, a fine or dinged in an audit. I mean, I think having good record keeping, good payroll, good tracking of all that stuff is really going to help reduce your risks.

ASHLEY

Yeah, absolutely. And I think going back to what Garrett was saying earlier, you know, and I think that a lot of farmers do this too, just taking on more and more and more. And I think that a lot of times it catches up with farms. So all of these regulations are constantly changing and farms are just keeping pace, keeping pace until all of a sudden they're just entirely overwhelmed or short staffed.

And by that point now we kind of have to work backwards a little bit. I think one of my, my biggest takeaways that I'd like everyone walking away with there is that there are tools. So not only are there companies like Great Lakes Ag Labor Services that really help reduce the overhead and the burden of pulling in labor and helping you through that process.

But there are tools like FieldClock that exist that really help reduce the back end. So as Sarah was talking about, there are lots of things that employers need to do on a day to day. I need to make sure I know where my employees are. I need to make sure that they're getting paid. I need to make sure that the timekeeping is accurate, because that's becoming more and more of a regulation to know when exactly your employees clocked in and when they clocked out.

Being able to show where they're moving throughout the day and how they're getting paid. But more importantly, how do I put that information into a place that's easy to access and manage and pull? So for for Garrett and for farms that are, you know, using, H-2a labor, how can I take the information that I've acquired this year to help me plan budget for next year?

Do I need, as many employees? Do I need more? What does it actually look like? And there are really affordable tools like FieldClock that help you do that. And and it's it's it's kind of mind blowingly simple. Your employees are clocking in and clocking out. That information is automatically being captured. So that like we were talking about, you're working on your business instead of in your business.

You're managing it and you're doing it on a day to day level. Instead of having to guesstimate and wait until the end of the year. I'd like to kind of go back to, to Sara, I guess, if you can tee off that. And what would you say doing it right actually looks like from your interactions with farms.

SARAH

That's a great segue, Ashley. If you want to move to the next slide, that's exactly where I was going to go, is that you do want to focus on doing it right? If you want to eliminate the potential for stress and risks, it's really a few key things. It's understanding the program, understand how it works and why it works the way it works, so that there aren't unrealistic expectations that H-2a guys are going to solve this issue.

They can only do you know what the program allows. Understand that it's complicated. It takes time. You got to work ahead. You got to do your homework and figure out if you want help. There's lots of help out there to help farmers navigate the process. But do your research. Find somebody that you trust, whether that's a farm labor contractor model or an agent model or whatever, the model, that those different models exist because they really do work well for different types of farms.

So do your research. You as an employer learn the requirements. We talked a little bit about it, but spend a little time understanding and being comfortable with. Okay, I know this is on me that I've got to do these things and make sure that your team, whoever's helping you, whether that's your husband or wife or another employee on the farm, understands we have to do these things correctly.

Plan ahead. If you're needing workers this year, you know, for a season that's about to start, you're already behind the ball. You're probably realistically looking at next year. Unless it's something for like Garrett described, it's a short term, seasonal surge labor that you need in the fall. You might be able to get on a farm labor contractor contract, but honestly, most of those contracts have already been filed, and so you legally probably can't do that.

So you do have to plan ahead and really do your homework. And then lastly, you got to go into this with a mindset of document. Document, document records, keeping really good files. And if you don't have that process in place sometimes that's why farms delay it for a year. They'll do all the research, they'll figure out what's required, and then they'll say, you know what?

My recordkeeping and payroll system isn't going to handle this. We're going to have to make some switches and get a service that can help us with that. So I think wrapping your head around all those pieces, that there is a lot to it, but also that there are people here that want to help you. And if I go back to kind of why Great Lakes Ag was started by farm Bureau, it wasn't to be another company, another service, definitely not to be a profit center.

It was started to help farms navigate the system successfully and to help keep our family farms in business. That's why we do what we do every day. And so know that there are people out there that that will stand beside you, walk beside you and help make it easier.

ASHLEY

That I, I love that, and I, I think that the relationship that you have with Farm Bureau is absolutely critical. Guarantee you, we're using and still use a farm labor contractor, but last year you decided to become a fixed site employer. And you knew with that was going to you were going to have to manage a little bit more.

After having a year managing your, employees coming in from South Africa, why did you ultimately start looking for a tool and why did you why did you start working with FieldClock? What what need is it meeting for you and how is it helping you manage your operation?

GERRIT

So I, as Sarah was alluding to, it was tracking and documentation, documentation type fermentation, all of the above. Not that we were lacking, but it was a lot of Excel spreadsheets were kind of guesstimating. It was, all of that. Okay. Yep. He did this. I think part of the day here. I mean, we were still, paper time cards type situation.

They work this many hours. That's great. But doing what it was, trying to get a better idea. So I had looked at FieldClock a couple of years ago. That. Now, at that time, we didn't have other employees other than a few domestic individuals that were local, semi-retired type individuals, that I could track that much easier. Okay.

They were only working three weeks and they had one task and that was fine. And that's neither here nor there. But the realization came as we were going through last year. It's like, well, we can't manage what we can't track. We don't know what we don't know. And we've got to figure out a way to do it.

More of a deep dive. As we sat down last fall, really, ultimately, we got done with harvest last fall. And and for what it's worth, we were already planning for 2026. As far as our employees, I mean, the timeline that Sarah was alluding to is is very stringent as far as it has to be this day that these things need to be filed to this agency, to that agency.

I met, as I mentioned before, getting ahead of it. So some of these individuals that may not be returning to their current employer for some reason, those folks want to get hooked up with a good employer early. It's no different than the job market anywhere else. I mean, if you're a college kid and you're good, you're getting job offers in the fall, before you even get, graduated.

Right. It's similar situation, so trying to be ahead of it. But at that time it was okay. We think we could probably use another person or two. We don't know because we didn't track it well enough. So it was we need to find something that fits for us. That's affordable, that can pull it all together. And, but again, feel like to touch those bases for us.

So there's we need to find something that, also can work with us that has good support, that's local enough that we're that we are a phone call away. But also able to do the tasks that we need to do. Feel clock has so far met that need for us where we have gone through tracked by job, by location.

The my employees are able to clock in from their phone if so desired. If they could clock in from a computer so desired. We've we've got it set up currently with our guys where they are clocking in from the phone, because a lot of times they won't meet at a physical location at the beginning of the day.

They are they are gone. And we've got a task. Got a plan figured out the night before. You're going to do this, this, this tomorrow morning. Go get them. We then know when they're clocking in, when they're clocking out, you know where they were clocking in where they're clocking. Now. We can track that then. So for us, it was more of a necessity.

As I said before, you can't manage what you can't track. And we're trying to do a better job on all fronts on our farm. So on that side, especially with, commodity prices and put prices where they're at, I mean, the the margin is slim, as slim as it's been, trying to figure out where you can save, where you can make more money.

We're not trying to save ourselves into prosperity, but we're trying to lean heavier where we can make money. And we don't know that if we can't track that. So tools like FieldClock so far has been, paramount to helping us make that management decision easier, more efficiently. And hopefully by the fall we'll have a better picture.

And again, it's going to take some time to get a lot of this data in there to make it make sense. As far as a big picture, but at least from the day to day, weekly to weekly type, we can understand what's happening and get a quicker snapshot than the shoe box method, as many farmers employ, where we've got chicken scratch written on a few things that they were doing this, this day.

And then it's December, January, and you're trying to figure out what actually happened. And most of the time you can't read your chicken stretch at that point and it's all for naught. So we're hoping to get ahead of it and do a better job of it this year and continue to grow and, shape our management based upon using these tools.

ASHLEY

Nicely said. Nicely said. And I think a lot of farms are going through very similar things to what you were going through. A lot of the family farms that that I talked to are using pen and paper to track hours to track their employees, time to track those movements, and yes, that absolutely does work and it's been working for you.

But it's time consuming and it is inefficient when it comes to really understanding, your operation and making better snapshot decisions in real time. And I think that that's where farms are feeling. The biggest disconnect, is with pen and paper. And also if they are employing H-2a because you have this contract that you need to implement to a tee so that you remain in compliance and you don't open yourself up for liability.

But also, now that I have these workers here, and oftentimes that wage rate is more expensive, how do I really maximize on that team that I'm pulling in? And how do I ensure that, you know, they're being as effective as they possibly can? And it's it's helpful to have tools like this. And I think that I'd love farmers to know that they're not only are tools available, but there are tools available that are actually built for them in mind.

Every single farm that I talk to, although they have some commonalities, they're so different. How their teams move, where they move to the name of the locations that they're moving to are so, so different. So having a system that can really meet your team where they're at and it's easy for them to use is essential. And that's why I'm very proud of our, connection to Farm Bureau and being a member benefit, because now we're providing a really affordable and critical tool to these farmers for them to try something like this and to really see how much it can reduce, their overall burden by going back to that disconnect with pen and paper

and from contract, to day to day. Sarah, where would you say that farms struggle the most once? Their teams are in place and on site.

SARAH

I think when it comes to the record keeping and the, making decisions based on not great data, I think is the struggle of making that jump from, like Garrett described, working out of a shoe box, we had a few things written down. This is kind of how we've always done it to. Now we're like, I have to understand not only because my team needs me to understand, but if I'm going to work on the business to get it to grow, you got to work off good data, and you got to have access to the right data to help you improve those decisions.

So there's no doubt that labor costs have increased substantially. For fonts for some firms, now that labor cost is almost 50% of their total operating costs. And as Garrett said, profit margins, in many sectors and most sectors of agriculture have declined. And in some cases they are so razor thin. You really have to get better at understanding all of the data that is available to you and employing a system that can help organize it and make it such that you can analyze it and you can make better decisions with it.

So, being more efficient and like you said, you don't want to save your weight, not necessarily saving your way to prosperity. But if you can find those savings and figure out a way to help those workers and your team be more efficient with time, with, maybe the even the tasks that they're doing. I know a farm that we work with in their first year of using FieldClock, actually, you know, I've talked about this, but a simple task of thinking about, am I going to go back through that orchard and do a second or third pick?

And there's apples on the tree? Probably the gut action is go pick those apples again. But then by having the right data and access to the data, they were able to make a decision about certain blocks that it's going to cost us more money to pick those apples than what they're worth. Once they had the data to analyze it, and they were able to send those workers to another block, maybe with a different variety.

In the past, they would have just picked them all three times and been done with it and lost money doing it, but they didn't know that they were losing money. So I think what we're talking about today is partnering with people that are experts in their fields that allow you, as the farmer, the Farm Bureau member, to take that time and spend time working on your farm business in its growth and its plan for the future.

And tools like FieldClock tools, like working with an H-2a provider can take a lot of that burden off of you as a manager and an owner.

ASHLEY

Yeah, absolutely. If being able to free yourself up and I'm sure, Garrett, you can speak to this as well, you know, time not spent in the office is time spent out in the field. And that's really where you want to be and where you need to be. Now, Garrett, thinking back to last year when you had your team in place, what would you say one of the biggest challenges was when you were working with them to manage the day to day.

And how is that change to this year? Now, implementing, a tool that helps you do that?

GERRIT

I alluded to it before. A lot of it was just navigational, trying to tell people where to go, what to do. Folks may have worked in and we did of the the individuals we had last year, all of them had worked on a fruit farm or been involved with fruit or vineyard or, or some sort of that.

But everybody, every farm has their does things slightly different. I mean, the general tasks may be similar, but everybody has a certain way of doing things. Some of that understand that you can't assume they know what they're doing. Right. So it's it's simple management. I mean, just making sure you train Sarah talked about it earlier about the training aspect of it.

You're investing a lot into these folks. The training side is paramount to get where you want to be. We underestimated that last year. Probably assumed too much at that point. And I went through this winter. I said, we can't do that again. We have to have a better plan in place, bringing newer people, newer people in and getting them out.

The it was brand new for us, bringing in all new people all together at one year. A lot of times we were fortunate where we'd have maybe one new person locally, but there'd be 3 or 4 other people there that could help backfill some on the job training type situation. But when we had a clean slate of new folks, ultimately it was very difficult to get all of that, started and, and really going successfully.

But as far as the day to day stuff goes, it's making sure these folks are in the right spot. A lot of it is all right. I told them to go back to Krampus back 40. Right. Well, they don't know where that's at. I mean, they might be on your uncle's 42 miles away, and you're trying to figure that out, but being able to track and manage that, I mean, we utilize some asset management tracking on and vehicles and farm equipment, all of those things.

So we can track that remotely as well. But also being able to track those job tests or feel like, has been helpful to make sure that, again, the job is getting done. We are spread out, relatively far from where we are at, our central location. I mean, we're not crazy far, but it's no good way to get there and a lot of places.

So it's not like we can be the eyes there all the time where these folks are out, where a lot of guys are working 15, 20 miles apart from each other and, and it's try and do manage and and follow those tasks. And a lot of times the organization piece is paramount to get started for the day. And whereas before we could kind of shoot from the hip when you were doing it yourself, you knew what needed to be done and you just went and did it.

And when you saw another thing, it was, okay, we got to go do that. And it just, snowballed. When you have that many people wondering what the next thing to do is. Right? So you're trying to skate where the puck is going to be, I guess. Right? So you're trying to figure out what the next day, what two days from now looks like.

And you need to figure out that what training needs to be done to get those folks up to speed, where they need to be physically, but also to perform that certain job task. So a lot of it from the complexity side, the day to day side was just a change because we had all new folks and trying to get them where they needed to be get up to speed.

Unfortunately, ag is very seasonal and these are temporary seasonal workers, so when they're coming in, it's temporary and seasonal, but it's also busy. So it's making sure, I guess segueing into making sure you get these folks on time and making sure you hit all your deadlines on time to ensure that they get here. Obviously we're rolling the dice at Mother Nature, and when that time, quote unquote, is it's as we have to kind of plan for arrival, getting those those folks here, timing an upright that they'll get there in ample time to do some training.

We don't want them here when it's the 15th of May and a million things are going on and they're now being thrown to the wolves. I mean, we want everybody to have a successful experience. So it's it's been complex from that, from that side. But, I think ultimately it goes back to tracking all of it.

ASHLEY

Yeah. That's that it is so important. So prior prior to working to, a FieldClock, I was actually running an apple and peach orchard in new Jersey. Not at all the same layer of complexity that that you have. Ours was exclusively pick your own, but we were tracking things with pen and paper, and the inefficiencies that we really had were at year end where we wanted to understand, you know, our profitability and understanding our labor costs and when you just have employees that are assigning their time cards where they have a start time and time each day, you don't have the understanding of where they actually spent their time.

So making decisions like, man, should we expand our peach orchard or not? Are we actually making money here or are we not? It's really, really difficult to do and a lot of times your guesstimating and I can't even imagine how complicated it is then to add, piecework on. But from the stories that I've heard, even one of our, of our owners, he was using pen and paper, which is how FieldClock ultimately got its start.

But he grows cherries, and after using FieldClock, they were able to move their team from picking like a third pick into a fresh flock simply because they actually saw production going down that day. So instead of putting them in a block where they would have done it just to do it because that's what they've done before, they saw that their productivity just plummeted.

They moved their employee group to a fresh flock, and all of a sudden profitability and production started really picking up and those are really, really important day to day changes that you can make once you have the visibility. Not even talking about how you make better business decisions at the end of the year, actually having real data to make those decisions.

And I know that we're, talking a little bit, more about this, but, Sarah, are you seeing the same things with farms using pen and paper to track things like, hours today?

SARAH

Still, I think that that is all over the board. Depending on the type of farm, the farm business setup, the next transition, the succession plan for that farm. And it's all okay, right? All of it is okay. It's it's really the point of what are you going to do next? And how do you how do you work to set yourself up for success or for improvement in the next year?

We have farms today that are doing H-2a that have paper record keeping. They do their payroll on paper, they do their timekeeping on a punch card. They have 1 or 2 workers and they can make it work. And I think that's the unique. One of the key takeaway messages from today is it's not one size fits all, fits all.

H-2a can work for lots of different types and sizes of farms. FieldClock can work on all different types and sizes of farms. So I think the takeaway message is that there's people and products and systems here to help you. If you're interested in getting better and planning for the future, and planning for that next generation to take over.

ASHLEY

Sarah, as we wrap up, what is one thing you want farmers to take away from today's conversation?

SARAH

I want farmers to know that there's people here that are willing to help you, and there's people and businesses and companies that want what's best for agriculture's future. That's why Farm Bureau started Great Lakes Ag Labor Services. We're here to help. We want help. We want farms to be successful. We want to be a tool in the toolbox that can help preserve that family farm and maybe be a piece of the, the solution of being able to pass that farm on to the next generation.

So the takeaway is, all this stuff is complicated, but there's people here that want to help you be successful.

ASHLEY

Thank you. And, Garrett, from your perspective as a grower, what's one thing that you would share with another farmer who's thinking about going down this path?

GERRIT

So from a growers perspective, I would suggest folks get started early, looking to look differently, I guess at labor, where you may be thinking labor is more of a liability. They can be an asset, right? So figuring out how you can move the needle on your farm and where you want to be and what what are your hold ups?

A lot of times they are labor related in the specialty crop industry and in maybe it's too much, too little, it's more often too little. As we saw earlier in a slide from Sara. But, what can that do for you? Right. So we understand, like Sara just said, that there are folks in industries and businesses that want to help you ask the question, ask the question to your Farm bureau as Great Lakes Ag as FieldClock, all of those all of those folks are in your corner, right?

So ask ask a neighbor. Ask somebody that's use these programs. I think a lot of times the grower perspective, the grower feedback, it'll be real candid. Stuff that you that they've faced a lot of the same problems that you may be facing. And maybe they aren't a problem. They are all in your head, but it may be a problem.

They've just got to be pushed off the edge and it'll be fine. But, a lot of it, just knowing that, most of the stuff isn't new at this point. We've we are moving along with new systems, but we're still managing labor. Right? It's just still labor. It's just a different source. It's just, the availability. But I think asking those questions, communicating with folks that know, that are in the trenches for you, I think is, is probably paramount to your success in the future.

And ag, from my perspective.

ASHLEY

Thank you. And thank, thank you both for taking the time to be a part of this. Sara, I really appreciate your insight and everything that you and your team are doing to support farms. And Garrett, thank you for sharing your experience because your perspective is incredibly valuable. I also want to thank Ohio Farm Bureau for helping bring this together.

Farm Bureau plays a really important role as boots on the ground for agriculture, helping farmers stay informed, to understand changes to regulations and providing a place to turn for answers and support. And that kind of presence and advocacy. Advocacy is critical. And programs like Great Lakes Ag Labor Services are a great example of that, not just helping farms navigate the process, but helping them to understand it and giving them access to a network of resources that they might not otherwise have.

And for those of you who are interested in learning more about Great Lakes Labor Services or FieldClock, you can find both of us on the Ohio Farm Bureau website under Member Benefits. And if you'd like to connect, with me or Sara, feel free to reach out to Ohio Farm Bureau, and they'd be happy to pass along contact information.

So thank you, everyone for joining us today. We really appreciate your time.